literate-perfunctory

# Thread: important: 4Bet Range correct???

1. ## important: 4Bet Range correct???

Hi,

I just checked the 4bet range of a few players in my hud and somehow it doesn’t seem to be correct.

If I am right informed 4bet range is calculated: PFR * 4Bet = 4Bet Range

2 examples (thats what hem2 shows me):
Player A: PFR 16; 4Bet 19,8 --> 4Bet range = 4,6
Player B: PFR 23; 4Bet 20,9 --> 4Bet range = 7,1

I expected
for Player A: 0,16 * 0,198 = 0,03168 --> 3,2 %
for Player B: 0,23 * 0,209 = 0,04807 --> 4,8 %

the interesting thing now is that if I take instead of PFR the "Raise 1st (total)" for my calculation I get the numbers which are shown by hem2?!?!

Player A: Raise 1st (total): 24 --> 0,24 * 0,198 = 0,04752
Player B: Raise 1st (total): 34 --> 0,34 * 0,209 = 0,07106

So in conclusion do I have an mistake or does hem2?

2. HM2 uses Raise 1st.
HM1 used PFR. (I'm not sure if this was also switched to Raise 1st, but at least it used to always use PFR)

It's debatable which method is better.
The advantage of NOT using PFR, is the PFR will include hands where you punish limpers, by raising against limper(s) in position.
These hands will NOT be used in the Raise 1st calculation and should result in a more accurate 4Bet Range

3. Doesn't PFR also take into account 3-betting, so for frequent 3-bettors 3 number could be significantly off? Would it be possible to add a raise first AND raise limper combined stats to make this easier?

As a coach, this stat is very confusing to teach students as it is

4. You'd like a Raise First + Raise Limpers combined stat, that doesn't include 3bets?

You can just use the regular:
PFR stat
3bet stat
(and add 4bet range in a popup)

5. Originally Posted by entrncd
Doesn't PFR also take into account 3-betting, so for frequent 3-bettors 3 number could be significantly off?
The advantage to this would be that it wouldn't include 3-bets, making it more accurate

6. I have written this up as a feature request which is on the list to address. While I do not have a specific date for when this feature might be added, we are putting out updates regularly.

The assigned internal ticket # on this issue is hm-4434. We will often release builds on a limited basis, only in the forums for a few days first, so please check back on this thread http://forums.holdemmanager.com/hm2-releases/ for that ticket #.

7. Thanks, it's great to know that HEM values our input

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