4b Range %

[btugalover]

Hi guys,

I was looking for it but didn't managed to find it.

I want to know what this stat means.

I know that the 4b % stat means the percentage of times villain 4bets when opens the pot.

How about the 4b Range %?

[DogNamedBluff]

Four Bet Range = % of hands player 4bets with based on PFR multiplied by 4bet %. This will give you the approx range of what hands he is 4betting.

Typically, 4Bet ranges while playing NLH are not bigger than 1-2%, meaning most players will only 4Bet hands such as QQ, KK or AA.

[btugalover]

Typically, 4Bet ranges while playing NLH are not bigger than 1-2%, meaning most players will only 4Bet hands such as QQ, KK or AA.

Thanks. Although, saying that in NLH games 4b ranges are not bigger than 1-2% is just not knowing how the games are nowadays...

[DogNamedBluff]

Thanks. Although, saying that in NLH games 4b ranges are not bigger than 1-2% is just not knowing how the games are nowadays...

Yes you are correct. I will adjust my future replies. ty

[AAmundsg]

I would like to see "4bet range%" stats vs hero" in the future updates.

[DogNamedBluff]

I would like to see "4bet range%" stats vs hero" in the future updates.

This is a feature which is on the list to address.
While I do not have a specific date for when this feature might be added, we are putting out updates regularly.

The assigned internal ticket # on this issue is hm-3494. We will often release builds on a limited basis, only in the forums for a few days first, so please check back on this thread http://forums.holdemmanager.com/hm2-releases/ for that ticket #.

[rowhousepd]

Four Bet Range = % of hands player 4bets with based on PFR multiplied by 4bet %. This will give you the approx range of what hands he is 4betting.

Sorry to be a dope, but I'm a bit confused. The regular "Total 4Bet" stat is the % of the time a player puts in a raises on any 3bet. (I think.) So the 4Bet Range is that same 4bet stat multiplied by his own PFR stat??? How/why does this more accurately reflect the actual range of hands he's 4betting with?

Let's say a player has a 4bet stat of 6 and a 4bet range of 2. What does this mean?

[DogNamedBluff]

Let's say a player has a 4bet stat of 6 and a 4bet range of 2. What does this mean?

My apologies. It used to be calculated 4bet% x PFR, while now it is 4bet% x raise first %, the new way is more accurate as PFR is much lower than raise first in%. If a player has a 4bet stat of 6 it means they are 4betting 6 of 100 opportunities and the 4bet range of 2% is an estimate that they are 4betting 2% of ALL holdings.

[rowhousepd]

So basically it's trying to give you a sense of what kind of hands they hold when they 4bet, is that correct? Take my example above: A "4bet" stat of 6 might suggest hands like { 88+,ATs+,KQs,AKo } where as a "4bet range" of 2 would mean they are more realistically holding something like { QQ+, AKs }. Is that right?

Just trying to figure out how you actually use a stat like this, and what it's really tell you about a villain. Thanks.

[btugalover]

So basically it's trying to give you a sense of what kind of hands they hold when they 4bet, is that correct? Take my example above: A "4bet" stat of 6 might suggest hands like { 88+,ATs+,KQs,AKo } where as a "4bet range" of 2 would mean they are more realistically holding something like { QQ+, AKs }. Is that right?

Just trying to figure out how you actually use a stat like this, and what it's really tell you about a villain. Thanks.

This is an important question.

And I have another one. Nowadays regs 4b bluff pretty often. Some 4bet for value (4b/call ship) like 60% of the time and 4b as bluff (4b/fold) 40% of the time. These numbers are of course, total numbers. So suppose we have a villain that has a 5% 4b range% in a 20k hand sample. It doesn't mean that he is 4betting 99+/AJs+/AKo right? Or as rowhousepd said, the difference between the 4b% and the 4brange% is that the 2nd one gives us a grasp of his likely 4b/call range?

Because if it doesn't, that stat is just meaningless nowadays. We, users of HM, are obviously regs that want to win money and understand the game. If we all know that other villains 4b as a bluff, the 4brange% needs to show that. What we would like to know is if there is a difference in meaning between the two stats. It looks like it doesn't. So now i think that those 5% example must be understand by us in a different way. I have to grab those 5% 4brange stat and come up with some % of bluffs and value.

Like this:

Suppose the reg's 4brange % is 5%. And I know that he never calls 4bets, and he folds to 5bets 50% of the time. So this means he ships 50% of the time. I can now divide the 5% range by two, having 2.5% for value and .5% as bluffs. This is probably accurate vs some regs.

Isn't there a way to give us a better stat? Like 4b/calling ship.

I would like to know if there's a way to have a stat that shows us the real value range (near reality of course).

Something with rules:

Stat is used just in pots 100bb deep or more.
Villain needs to be 4betting and calling a ship, or 6betting/calling, etc...

I know this is too complicated and that 4branges depend more on other stuff like table dynamics and reads, etc.