HM2 positional stats

[Daniel]

Firstly, I think the number of stats is a big improvement in HM2. But I find it ather strange that you already sell a product without stat definitions available... I've read that those are coming (way too late imo).

There are numerous positional stats, eg call open btn vs EP raise and SB 3b vs MP. Very interesting, but how does that work out in 6 max vs 10 max?

In HM1 there are numerous topics about FR vs 6max stats (eg http://forums.holdemmanager.com/hold...-better-2.html). Therefore it is highly important to know what positions definitions are used in HM2.

I think that many players would prefer to see positional stats that are not overlapping (EP in 6max is MP in full ring). Especially when you are at an 8 max table with 2 people sitting out.

[DogNamedBluff]

Positions are defined the same in HM2 as they are in HM1.

[Daniel]

Could a change be considered? It is apparent that EP is completely different between 6max, 8max and 10max. If at a 10max table 1 player is on sitout and 1 seat is empty, EP is calculated based on EP1, EP2 and EP3 (or UTG, UTG+1 and UTG+2), but with 8max EP stats are derived from EP3 and MP1.

It is nice that FR reports are available, but we need a FR HUD to make the best decisions.

One specific question about the new stats: there is a 3b vs UTG full ring stat. That's clear. But how about MP in full ring? Right now MP consists of MP1 MP2 and MP3 for full ring, but is BTN 3b vs MP only for the 6max MP position?

Other question: I use HUD player number filters to calculate stats (eg 7-10 players for 8, 9 and 10max). In 8max with 7 seats occupied, MP1 and MP2 stats are used to calculate EP, but in 10max only EP1-3 are used. Will 7 seat 8max MP1 and MP2 stats influence 10max EP HUD stats?

As you can see this is not clear and logic. I don't know if stats for all 10 positions would make things clearer, but it is really confusing the way it is now.

[Sarek]

HM1 and HM2 use this table.
Hope it is "selfexplanable"

[Daniel]

I understand, but I hope you agree that it does not make sense to define EP and MP stats differently when 1 or 2 seats become empty.

[udbrky]

Do you set the # of players in the HUD Filters? This is really useful to see how players adjust to shrinking/growing tables. It will also eliminate seeing EP hands from FR+6m+4m

[Daniel]

Yes, I use that feature, but that makes it even harder imo...

7 players: EP=MP1+MP2
8 players: EP=EP3+MP1
9 players: EP=EP2+EP1+MP1

So when someone is on sitout I have to count the number of active players to see if I have to look at the EP or MP stat if someone is on MP2. If all positions would be related to the button, EP would always be a 6-max stat (MP2) and EP1 to MP1 are stats for 7-10 max.

Since we are talking about preflop only, VPIP and UOPFR are the most important stats. Especially the highjack position is essential in full ring games. Now MP is calculated over 3 positions with big differences between CO and MP stats as a consequence. CO UOPFR can be 37% with MP only 18%. This gap is so big because MP is an average stat for 3 positions. If this is split out, it would give more insight into tendencies of villain. The same story for EP1 vs EP3. EP total could be 8% with 4% in EP1, 8% in EP2 and 12% in EP3 or a flat range of 8% over all positions. This is essential info to determine a UTG (EP1) PFR range!

[udbrky]

I passed along some ideas to look into this.

[Yurek]

Yes, I use that feature, but that makes it even harder imo...

7 players: EP=MP1+MP2
8 players: EP=EP3+MP1
9 players: EP=EP2+EP1+MP1

So when someone is on sitout I have to count the number of active players to see if I have to look at the EP or MP stat if someone is on MP2. If all positions would be related to the button, EP would always be a 6-max stat (MP2) and EP1 to MP1 are stats for 7-10 max.

Since we are talking about preflop only, VPIP and UOPFR are the most important stats. Especially the highjack position is essential in full ring games. Now MP is calculated over 3 positions with big differences between CO and MP stats as a consequence. CO UOPFR can be 37% with MP only 18%. This gap is so big because MP is an average stat for 3 positions. If this is split out, it would give more insight into tendencies of villain. The same story for EP1 vs EP3. EP total could be 8% with 4% in EP1, 8% in EP2 and 12% in EP3 or a flat range of 8% over all positions. This is essential info to determine a UTG (EP1) PFR range!

+1
to udbrky: Please add to HUD statistic by position (R1 from UTG, UTG1, UTG2, MP1, MP2, MP3). It has long been waiting for this from the developers.

[sebkarlsson]

Is this ever going to be implemented? Afaik PT4 does have positional stats for FR. Seems ridiculous with the state of poker today and the volume of tools available in HEM 2, that we still can't differentiate between utg 1-2 mp1-3, etc...

PLEASE add specific positional stats for FR already!