4B Stat Definintion

[steel108]

Just wanted to clarify the following stat definition since it can be interpreted both ways:

RaiseThreeBetFromPlayerOutOfPositionAfterMiddlePos itionRaise

Does this stat mean how often a player raises from MP and 4B when OOP or does it mean that the 3Better is OOP and we are IP?

[udbrky]

MP raises
SB/BB/EP 3bets
MP 4bets

is how I read it. I will get clarification.

[Adam Monroe]

I read it how udbrky reads it, but who knows.

On the same sort of note, what is the definition of

Fold vs 3B.MP.OOP

Does that mean the 3b is coming from the button/cutoff or that the 3b is coming from the blinds.

It's weird because in HEM1 and with the 4bet stat above you would think it is coming from the blinds, but there is a problem you notice once you add it to a pop.


RaiseThreeBetFromPlayerOutOfPositionAfterMiddlePos itionRaise

shows up as 4MPi

and

Fold vs 3B.MP.OOP

shows up as F3COO

The i in the first stat stands for in position and the o in the second stat stands for oop, but they are supposed to be for the exact same situation, one where you fold to the 3b and one where you 4b the 3b from the blinds when you raise in MP. Or am I reading the stat wrong?

Can someone clarify?


ETA: The more I think this through, the more I think the 4bet stat refers to the original raiser being OOP, because otherwise the preview that is entered into the popup designer is really misleading.

[udbrky]

If you gave names of stats rather than abbrevs, this would be so much easier.

[Adam Monroe]

Fold vs 3B.MP.OP (F3MPO)
CallThreeBetFromPlayerOutOfPositionAfterMiddlePosi tionRaise (C3MPi)
RaiseThreeBetFromPlayerOutOfPositionAfterMiddlePos itionRaise (4MPi)


Those three stats all add up to 100% and thus are all for the same situation.

The question is whether it is the 3-better who is out of position (in the blinds) or if it is the person who is doing the folding/calling 4-betting is out of position (3 better is in the CO/button).

You contradicted yourself in your last answer saying one referred to the 3-better being OOP and the player 3-bet them and one referred to the player doing the folding being OOP. It can't be that way, they have to both be the same and the stats are near useless without confirmation 100% of what it is one way or the other.

[udbrky]

I deleted the other posts for clarity.

Discussing with some people, will come back to this.

[udbrky]

This will be addressed in a release and FAQ that we are working on (not the soon to be released release).

stat.i = you're In Position
stat.o = you're Out of Position

[Adam Monroe]

This will be addressed in a release and FAQ that we are working on (not the soon to be released release).

stat.i = you're In Position
stat.o = you're Out of Position

That's what I assumed but it is wrong in this case.

Again,

Fold vs 3B.MP.OP (F3MPO)
CallThreeBetFromPlayerOutOfPositionAfterMiddlePosi tionRaise (C3MPi)
RaiseThreeBetFromPlayerOutOfPositionAfterMiddlePos itionRaise (4MPi)

all refer to the same situation where you are in MP and the 3better is in the same (unclear) position. Either the 3-better is in the blinds in all of those stats or the 3-better is in the CO/BTN in all of those stats. It can't be different and two of those stats have an i and one has an O.

The only thing that could make sense is you are saying that Fold vs 3B.MP.OP (F3MPO) doesn't have a lower case o so it doesn't follow those rules. In which case it should be renamed F3MPi

If that's the case all 3 stats refer to a 3-better from the blinds after a MP raise, yes?

In that case having the stat named OutOfPosition and yet being i to indicate in position is super confusing.

[Adam Monroe]

Bump, still need answer to above question, but also have a new one.

What is the difference (if any) between:

SkippedFlopCBetOOPAndFoldedToBet

and

CheckFoldFlopAsPFR

They seem to be the exact same to me. There are similar stats for turn/river that I imagine are also pretty much the same.

[udbrky]

I'm re-examining this in a DB of only hands where I faced a 3b in MP.